I just started to comment on this podcast and it turned into this blog post. I am surprised and not that my last actual post was promoting The US and The Holocaust. I currently have notes on three other blog entries that have not made it here yet (pigmentacracy, feminism and big words). Following the flow of my life has not failed me lately. ✨
These are my real time comments on the conversation as I listened to I'm All Over the Place Podcast EPISODE 9 | KYRIE, KANYE AND DAVE with Dara Starr Tucker & Greg Bryant.
Initial comments still on the episode page:
Nadine Bent-Russell (edited)
I am just gonna comment as I listen to this insightful episode and your breakdown (shared by Diddy) that brought you to my attention. I stopped minutes in and restarted to comment on what I have heard so far because you are saying a lot.
I will start by saying I highly appreciate your perspective although I disagree with some of your framing. Also, I think this "anti-semitism" is more pervasive because of hoteps and some Hebrew Israelites' point of view spreading into the mainstream Black community. I do not put Kanye, Kyrie and Dave in the same category at all. I am not really aware of Nick Cannon(’s issue, but I don’t need to look it up since I am not touching on it), but I agree this is an especially charged issue for those Black people in entertainment.
I also think there is a level of betrayal being experienced that is not being touched on as I have seen the conversation go over the years. First, one of the things I appreciate as insightful from your breakdown is the point you make about Norman Lear making content that features Black life in a way that he did not have insight to convey, and the power dynamic that allowed him to seamlessly take credit for it (and make millions from it) back then. It didn't sit well with Eric Monte and probably others in that time, but as you point out (unjustly, it was a norm then). We all emerge at different times around understanding colonialist constructs, alongside the container that society is in tolerating our awareness.
While I appreciate you pinpointing the history where European Jews moved into being part of the pigmentocracy power class, the thing that makes a comment "anti-semitic" as the term has been used conventionally used is taking a negative ethnic stereotype and attributing it to all of a Jewish group. One can say something like "generally speaking, this has been my experience..." But tak(ing) an anecdotal experience and attributing it to a whole group seems irresponsible of someone with a platform, no matter the group. Okay, now I will continue to listen to this episode…
I see that Greg addressed what I said about those blanket statements with the part that I hoped that you included. I am just so glad that you all did this episode. Between you and Greg, you all covered a lot. (I have been sharing your breakdown with a lot of friends as an insightful representation). Thanks so much!
More comments as I listen:
Jews don’t seem to call out anti-Blackness as much as they want us to call out and stand against anti-Jewish statements by anyone, especially when Black people might be doing it.
I may not call out colonial constructs each time I hear it depending on the context, but if it is a practice of someone close to me, I address it.
Jon Stewart started his discussion with Colbert on some Jewish tropes and ended strongly as Dara indicated.
Yes, if one of us isn’t free, none of us are.
Great point about “punching down” as it is called.
I will continue to say “anti-Jewish” or “Jewish hatred”. Dara, it seems like you are caping for someone by giving your blanket dismissal of pushback on use of “anti-Semitism” - https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/where-the-word-anti-semitism-comes-from/ Black people can be anti-Black, so I have no idea what those Black people who say they can’t be anti-Semitic are getting at. I am not confused… We can participate in anti-Jewish behavior but the outcome of anti-Jewishness does not benefit us in this case either. The system that is anti-Jewish is also anti-Black, but they still have power in this pigmentacracy.
“Dangerous bigotry”, exactly Greg! We can only be something like anti-Black or anti-Jewish if the benefits redound to us, but we can and shouldn't participate in this dangerous bigotry. Anyone can make a mistake, but to be reticent against collaboration is a problem no matter one's beliefs.
I like the term “colonial construct”. I will be using it going forward. Thanks so much.
I agree with Greg about Kyrie. I even had to address a friend because he said, “What Kyrie said”. Even though I remember that he never said anything anti-Jewish, I searched in the moment and told my friend that I found no quote where he said anything anti-Jewish. This ability to just defame people and not go back and recant or apologize with any string of words is disgusting, and a symptom of the power some wield in this pigmentacracy.
This man, who is going through what I see as a stage of wokeness, is being unjustly checked.
“Made an example out of him”, definitely sounds like caping for a colonial construct. There is no way he wouldn’t have had some whitelash over posting that movie during the Kanye storm. He did apologize. He did not say the words that the colonial construct is requiring, but he apologized. Anyone expecting particular wording is caping for the colonial construct.
None of us have seen the movie he posted. I refuse to put any pennies toward it. And as I told my friend, from what I have seen of those types of content, who the original Hebrews are can often be a subtext. If it is a Hebrew Israelite production, I can imagine it being a more hateful depiction. I would never speak with confidence about anyone else’s take on a movie I haven’t seen. I agree on not debating people who aren’t open to discourse, but there is a lot of scholarship that supports an accurate telling of Hebrew history. I accept that Dara may not be a scholar in this respect, I hope that she considers that too. I definitely agree with Greg about Kyrie. The punishments are definitely not equitable, especially when one compares the punishment of Black people to any other group as a whole.
Holocaust denial is a construct of this pigmentacracy. It is not something that is mainstream in the Black community. I do agree that, like many communities, the Black community has things to learn about other marginalized groups and how to respectfully engage, but let’s not collapse things as if they are equal Dara. Sounds like caping for the colonial construct to me. Please understand that if these issues are fixed for the Black community, they are fixed for everyone. Please name a marginalized group that is not in the Black community…
I also found your point about the world of entertainment insightful and nuanced in the breakdown and in this episode Dara, thanks.
I have always interpreted “pragmatic” as caping for the system although I still find the line of pragmatism a personally drawn one. Someone has to get burned to move society to a more mature place because this system violently lashes back on change. It is a well-known characteristic of the colonialist construct. “Grievance culture”? Oh, okay, I see you… not so in touch with activist culture maybe. 🤷🏽♀️ Tearing down someone’s ethnicity is only a tactic of this colonialist construct. I have addressed that with someone by saying “stop trying to be like those who benefit from this system”.
I don’t agree with Greg about the need to actually wield weaponry against those who have harmed you. Or at least, I would say, the only weapon I wield is words, unless in defense of the life of my loved ones, and that is a contextual decision even then. I am also aware that the possible reason I can take that position is because they may fear those of us who wield arms first.
Greg’s framing of Rev. Dr. MLK, Jr. will be insightful to many.
I call out/in any caping for the white supremacist/colonialist system when I can make it effective like in the case of Bill Cosby and R. Kelly’s predatory behavior, Herschel Walker’s caping and the few things I hope Dara will look at that don’t rise to any of those examples.
I would like to see what Dara offered by doing the breakdown, offered back to us as I mentioned above. I just don’t hold my breath for that. I don’t expect it when someone in power smears another. And I don’t expect it until those in the power class of this pigmentacracy embody anti-racist culture as Resmaa Menakem encourages. I explain it in my own experience as when I don’t have to point it out because it is a high level of risk when one considers the disparity in flashback and punishment of Black people, as well as the ongoing labor our living requires.
About Kanye, you said it Dara. He is probably a narcissist. He connects to DJT probably because they are birds of a feather. And like any good narcissist does, they will use anything for narcissistic supply, and they only get close to another one to outdo them. He proves his need for mental help thinking he can beat DJT at that in this pigmentacracy when DJT fully embodies the characteristics of this system. For me, narcissism is a characteristic of how the lie of white supremacy flows. I hope someone takes Kanye’s mic and leaves him enough money to get quality care, although getting mental help is not a trait of a narcissist, except for when they are in search of more supply according to experts.
I am always interested in when people are embarrassed by what someone else does. 🤔
I agree that none of us should participate in being anti-Jewish or especially any kind of punching down as Dara has touched on multiple times. That takes education since the example being followed is toxic to everyone.
To me, religion is a cultural expression of spirituality, no more, no less credible than that and I respect choices in those practices. Abrahamic religions have ruled contemporary human history. 🤷🏽♀️ Therefore, it is important for us to mature beyond bickering over which invader was best. I contemplate and seek guidance to live more like those who were following a spiritual way of life before it had to be written down and definitely before invaders shoved their interpretations down the throats of the indigenous. I hope more live their convictions that do not include the savagery in which we have been conditioned.
Thanks again for this discussion between you and Greg. Keep doing the great work you are Dara!
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